Wednesday, January 14, 2009
Day 22
To Dr. Rank, Nora says, "When I was at home, of course I loved Papa best....I feel the same about Torvald as I did about Papa." In what ways is Nora's and Torvald's relationship like that of daugher and father? In what ways is Nora encouraged to behave in a childish and silly manner? How might she behave if people treated her more seriously? In what ways does Nora encourage Torvald's paternal treatment of her? Why might she do so?
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Nora and Torvalds relationship is like father daughter by Torvald has all the power. Also Torvald treats Nora like a child. Nora is encouraged to act childish by she was never treated like an adult so all she knows is to act childish. If people treated her more seriously she would act more like an adult. Nora encourages Torvalds treatment by she goes along with how he treats her. Also he has not seen her act like an actual adult before. She does this to make him happy and so that he trusts her and lets her do most anything.
Their relationship is on a lower level then what we see today. He treats her like she is dumb, and sometimes doesn't know better. Nora on the other hand, contributes to the way he treats her. She plays along as the childish wife that Torvald has to take care of. It's in her best iterest to do so because she gets her way most of the time. She uses that as a way to manipulate his usual thinking. I think if people treated her more seriously she would be shocked in that she couldn't really flirt to get what she wants. Nora encourages Torvald by playing along as the helpless wife who always needs his help for everything. She does it because she likes things done her way, and its the easiest way that she knows how.
This quote makes me think Torvald almost has to look out for Nora. I believe he thinks he has to protect Nora, and she welcomes the protection, like a father daughter relationship. Nora is encouraged to act childish because she knows the reaction she will get from Torvald. She knows that he will "baby" her, and she will try to get her way. I think she would be more cocky if people treated her more seriously. The interactions she had with Christine shows her true personality, in my opinion. Nora encourages Torvald's treatment toward her possibly because of a sense of security, or again, so she can get her way.
To Dr. Rank, Nora says, "When I was at home, of course I loved Papa best....I feel the same about Torvald as I did about Papa." In what ways is Nora's and Torvald's relationship like that of daugher and father? In what ways is Nora encouraged to behave in a childish and silly manner? How might she behave if people treated her more seriously? In what ways does Nora encourage Torvald's paternal treatment of her? Why might she do so?
Their relationship is like a father daughter relationship because Torvald acts like he has all the power over Nora like a father would would. Torvald treats her like how a father would treat his daughter. He always has a chain on her. Nora is encourage to act childish because she doesn't know what it feels like to be an adult. She hasn't had the freedom to act like an adult. She went from her fathers house to Torvalds. She never had the chance to be independent. I think if Torvald treated her more like an adult that she wouldn't lie as much. She would be more forward everything.
Torvald is the one who has to look out for Nora and it is like a father daughter relationship. I think Torvlad has the say in everything like a father figure instead of Torvald being a husband. If he ws considered more of a husband they would have decisions together the way a husband and wife would. Nora is encouraged to act this way because it is the only way her husbands see's her as. She is treated as a child and thats about the only time he will listen to her. If people treated her more seriously i think she would have a better say in everything. She wouldn't have to make herself seem dumber then she really is. Nora encourages this behavior because she never once says anything to her husband about it. She just keeps on going like nothing ever happened. She does this because i feel like this is the only way that Torvald will listen to her and understand her. She can get her way better by just playing along with being alot stupider then she really is.
To Dr. Rank, Nora says, "When I was at home, of course I loved Papa best....I feel the same about Torvald as I did about Papa." In what ways is Nora's and Torvald's relationship like that of daugher and father? In what ways is Nora encouraged to behave in a childish and silly manner? How might she behave if people treated her more seriously? In what ways does Nora encourage Torvald's paternal treatment of her? Why might she do so?
Nora's and Torvald's relationship is like a father daughter relationship in manny ways. Torvald calls his wife little cute names just like a father does to his daughter. Torvald also treats her like a daughter. Nora is encouraged because Torvald playes into this childness. Torvald alows this to go on and continue, there for Nora keeps acting in this manner. I belive that if people treated Nora like and adult she would act like an adult. Nora was treated like a kid her hole life so far. She grew up with her father, and lived with her parents her hole life. Untill she mooved out only to move in with Torvald. That is why Nora acts the way she does, in a way she is still a little kid living in a adult body and world. Nora plays along with Torvald's paternal treatment because she can get what she wants out of him as long as she continues.
Nora in her marriage relationship is almost a daughter figure. Torvolad treats her as if she was a little kid and she gets no freedoms. She acts like that so make torvald happy. She wants him to feel that she isnt really smart and that he is much more above her in society. She might be more mature and serious about other things in life. She never sticks up for herself. What ever he says is final and thats it. She does this so he feels he has absolute control and i guess you can say more manly.
Nora's relationship to Torvald is a very paternalistic one in that Torvald treats her like a child rather than his wife. As we discussed in class, Nora's relationship with her husband is presumably similar to the one that she had when she lived under her father as she never had any independent experiences. She likely lived with her father until marriage, and then moved directly on to live with Torvald. As such, she is accustomed to the way her father treats her and thus Torvald treats her in such a demeaning, paternal way. He encourages this behavior constantly by making her seem childish by calling her demeaning names and talking down to her repeatedly. He scolds her for doing things that she would like to do such as purchasing macaroons and does not think that she is competent, when in fact she is rather smart. It seems that she plays off of this. I think that she might behave in an adult-like manner if people treated her seriously. She seems to be perceived as a simple clumsy girl, however throughout the novel she displays her ingenious ideas such as acting as if she had forgotten the Tarantella so that her husband would help her remember it, thus successfully distracting him from opening the letter box which reveals Nora's deception. It is in this manner by which Nora encourages Torvald's paternal treatment. If she acts silly and childish then she will be treated as a child. She does this so that she doesn't reveal her genius to Torvald.
I think that there are a few different ways that this could be like a father daughter relationship. For one torvald kind of treats her like a child. He loves her though just like her father does. Alsojust having another man living with you could be like father daughter relationship. Nora is encourage to behave like a child because she used to do that around her father probably. She also does that to seem dumb but she is actually smart. If people treated her more seriously she would probably be different. She wouldn't be afraid to say what was on her mind. Nora doesnt stick up for herself. This is why Torvald treats her the way that he does.
In the relationship Torvald treats Nora like she is a child. He thinks she acts dumb and childish so thats how she is trated. Torvald encourges Nora to act childish by giving her pet names and talking down to her like a parent would do to a young child still not sure what to expect from the world. I think if people treated her more seriously she might not have lied to torvald and thier lives wouldnt be so complicated. I think they would be alot duller and this book we be a big drag, but they wouldnt have as many secrets. Nora is a very, very smart person in my opinion. She uses the way that Torvald treats her to manipulate him for her own gain. She goes along with the treatment and the little names and in return he will give her almost anything.
Cody Dykes
I think that this statement proves everything about Nora. She never really was treated like a true adult. She let's Torvald treat her like a child. She likes her father so she doesn't want to lose a child/father relationship that Torvald holds to her. I think that that's the way he likes to treat her and feeds into it causing her to act like a child. This works to a big disadvantage when it comes to the more important thing's in life. I think she could have been more wise in dealing with the borrowing money situation thing if she would have been more grown up.
When Nora says to Dr. Rank "When I was at home, of course I loved Papa best....I feel the same about Torvald as I did about Papa." she is basically suming up how similar her relationship between her Papa and Torvald are. Torvald throughout the story continuesly talks down to Nora and treats her much like his daughter. Nora is encouraged by Torvald to behave childish and silly because she calls her nicknames like songbird. Nora is genuis in knowing that if all she does is play into the things that Torvald wants to her and see she will get her way. The ironic thing is that Nora is the smart one by getting anything she wants from him. It is also tricky because Nora is hiding enourmous secrets from Torvald thus far in A Dolls House. If people treated Nora more seriously she might behave as intelligent as she truely is. The reason she acts the way she does is because at that period of time she knew exactly what the people wanted to see so she always played into it. Nora encourages Torvald's paternal treatment to her because I think she is comfortable in the routine in the way things have been and does not want to dare upset Torvald because things would simply fall apart. I feel like I can relate to Nora in a lot of ways so it is easy for me to understand alot of times througout the story why she does the things she does.
Nora relationship to Torvald is like father and daughter by Torvald tells her everything she does badly. He treats Nora like a kid. She never had to take any of her responsibility for her own self. Nora plays dumb to encourage her childish acts. She knows if she can work at it she will get her way. If she were taking more seriously she would probably act like Mrs. Linde. She would have responsibility of what she does. Nora encourage Torvald's paternal treatment of her by she try to act like a baby so she can get what she wants. She probably feels safe how he treats her.
Firstly, I would disagree with the statement that Torvald has all the power. WHile he does have some, I think a sizable portion is also given to Nora. Nora seems to be quite apt at getting what she wants, and taking most of the control from Torvald. She can goad him into eating out of the palm of her hand, so I would argue that Nora has slightly more of the power.
However, Nora and Torvald's relationship is father-daughter in many other ways. Torvald is extremely demeaning, and he attempts to guide her and teach her how to do things as if she is an imbecile. Torvald also has a manner of scolding Nora as if she were a child when she acts "impertinent" or "obstinate". On the flip-side, however, he does encourage this manner by using ridiculous diminutives. "Squirrel" and "songbird" are names that a parent may call a child, and by using that with Nora, it is encouraging her childish behavior.
If Nora were to be taken seriously by Torvald, the first behaviour that she would abandon her immature comments and her persistent fascination with all things "pretty" and herself. Nora is selfish in a way I find disgusting. When Ms. Linde drops by to see Nora, Nora can do nothing but speak of how lucky she is and how rich she is. If one were to do that today, one would be viewed as a pompous ass, and I'm sure Ms. Linde views Nora, but is to polite to say.
Nora does, however encourage Torvald into treating her like a child. She plays into his games, acts helpless and presents herself as an imbecile. She most likely does, as I said above, to exert some degree of control onto him as well as appease him. The money that she has borrowed needs to be paid back, and by acting like this, she is generally able to get some money out of Torvald to be repaid to Krogstad promptly.
Nora and Torvald's relationship is like a father-daughter in many ways. In one way it's because Torvald treats her like a little girl that doesn't know how to do anything but have fun. He tells her what is wrong and right and corrects her on everything. Nora acts childish to get attention and make people watch her and do what she wants like a 3 year old. If people listened to what she had to say she might not have to act childish and clumsy. She acts like a child to seem innocent and blank minded or just set away from all logic and real world events. Torvald doesn't know she wants to be treated differentely because she never speaks up and she is smart enough to use the personality to her advantage.
-Dick Nehring
Nora and Torvald's relationship is so similar to a "father daughter realtionship." Which is why Nora states that she loves Torvald the way she loved her father, because the bonds she shares with each are so relateable. Nora takes orders and commands from Torvald like the way a daughter must obey the rules of her father. The respect Torvald shows Nora is not that on a level of a marriage between people, but more of a controling and powerful kind of respect. Torvald talks to Nora as though he is higher up then her and he is the one with all of the power in the house, she basically has no say in what goes on. The way they handle their money is that Torvald basically earns it, and hands it out to Nora when its needed, just like a father treats his daughter with money. Nora is encouraged to behave so childish because she never really got the chance to grow up and fend for herself in the real world. Her father would baby her just the same way has Torvald does since they are married. Nora, along with many other woman during that time, had the sterotype of not being able to have much say or power, and basically to bow down to their husbands and let them take control. Nora had to such up and act so childish to Torvald because she felt as though that was the only way she could get him to give into her. If Nora was given more power, and more responsibility, she might be able to grow up some and stop acting so childish. People would take Nora more seriously and not view her as just a self-centered useless woman, if she could learn to take herself more seriously. Nora is actually a very intelligent person, but its hard for her to break through the sterotype and show it. She would rather just keep on playing along and acting as though she is clueless, because that is what she thinks people would rather see from her, when really that isn't the case.
To Dr. Rank, Nora says, "When I was at home, of course I loved Papa best....I feel the same about Torvald as I did about Papa." In what ways is Nora's and Torvald's relationship like that of daugher and father? In what ways is Nora encouraged to behave in a childish and silly manner? How might she behave if people treated her more seriously? In what ways does Nora encourage Torvald's paternal treatment of her? Why might she do so?
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is like a father daughter relationship because, Torvald is the man figure in the house and every thing is done his way. I also have the feeling that it's not like a father daughter relationship. If Torvald was like a father to Nora he would spoil her. I think that if Nora was taken more seriously things would be way different. Like when krogstad threatens her and she does the same to him, i think that Krogstad would be afraid. Krogstad might feel Nora as more of a threat. The way that Nora encourages the childish play is by using her pet names. Like when she wants something from Torvald she always says something about being a squirrel. I think if she was taken more seriously she would not have to do that. She would also be more respected by every one.
Houghtaling
In what ways is Nora's and Torvald's relationship like that of daugher and father? In what ways is Nora encouraged to behave in a childish and silly manner? How might she behave if people treated her more seriously? In what ways does Nora encourage Torvald's paternal treatment of her? Why might she do so?
Nora and torvald have very much a father daughter relationship, because this was tradition back then. women were subserviant to men and they were seen but not heard. she is encouraged to act like this, because it was with the times. women had no say, or part in society. if she was treated more seriously, she might be able to handle a loan on her own, and have a healthier relationship with torvald. she encourages this treatment of her, to keep him oblivious to her actua intelligence, and therefore, actions. i feel she would encourage this, so she can, in effect, live a seperate life where she is independant in her own eyes.
Their relationship is like a father and daughter because i think that Nora feels confortable with Torvald becuase his actions are similar to her fathers and its what shes used too. I think that she acts childish because she gets treted like a child. If Torvald treated her with respect then she would probably act more mature. I dont think Nora really cares about the way Torvald talks to her because she doesnt tell him to stop or tell him she doesnt like it. If she would just say something then he would probably stop. I think that she does this so that Torvald will let her get away with a lot more things.
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is like that of a father and daughter because Torvald is overbering. Torvald comes up with all of these rules for his house and if Nora does not follow them then he punishes her. He also tries to protect her from everything and does not allows her to do much if anything at all. Also he expects her to have all the same opinions and intrests that he does. If people treated Nora more seriously then they might realize that she does have some brains and is capable of doing things for herself. Also they would find that she has a longing for something more and that she is very misunderstood. Nora encourages this treatment by allowing it to go on without speaking against it. If she would speak up and tell him that she wants to be treated differently then im sure that he would. Also she finds it easier to get by with what others will do for you instead of lifiting a finger and having to do things yourself.
Tom Hall
Nora and Torvald's relation is like that of daughter and father. Here is one way that they act like that: He doesn't let her eat the macaroons. Nora is encouraged to behave in a childish and silly manner because she is in charge of playing with the kids. She might not lie if she was treated more seriously. She might do so because he is comfortable with it.
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