Today we continued our reading of "A Doll's House" and have read up to page 119. Make sure that you are re-reading as it is the best way to understand.
Based on today's reading, has your opinion of Nora changed at all. Why or why not? Based on Nora's maccaroon eating and loan taking do you think that she falls under the themes of betrayal or deception? Why or why not? Does the character of Nora create a grey area for these themes within society? Give an example of when betrayal or deception may not be negative but a neccesity.
22 comments:
Since todays reading my opinion has changed of Nora. It has changed because she has done something that has not been revielded yet but it was big. This has shown that Torvald doesnt know everything that Nora does. Also tha Nora does not really fear torvald as much as she it thought to. I think that she has fallen in the betrayal theme because she went behind torvalds back and took some kind of money. Betrayal can be a good thing by if it helping people. If it if for a really good reason it is ok to betray someone by usually that is not the case. In this case Nora betrayed Torvald for a good reason because she need to get the money for the cure to make him better.
Based on today's reading, has your opinion of Nora changed at all. Why or why not? Based on Nora's maccaroon eating and loan taking do you think that she falls under the themes of betrayal or deception? Why or why not? Does the character of Nora create a grey area for these themes within society? Give an example of when betrayal or deception may not be negative but a neccesity.
My opinion has changed it went from a little lie about eating to a huge lie dealing with a large amount of money. I think Nora falls under betrayal because she first started liying about the maccarmons betraying her husband. Now we finde out she has betrayed him in a bigger way, she borrowed a large sum of money. She also knew that borrowing is one of her husbands biggest problems. Torvald dosnt want his name to be in vain if he dies. Torvald dosnt want to take the chance of having a bad reputation and what his wife did was put his name in jeopardy. She did all of this for a good cause tho, her husband was in a bad condition. So to save him she took out a lone and said her father gave her the money. What Nora should have done is told Torbald the trouth, because now if he findes out that she lied to him hes going to be evean more upset.
My opinion of Nora has changed in both positive and negative ways. The fact that she paid for the trip to Italy was somewhat of a good thing in my eyes. However, the fact that she lied about the trip for her own selfish wants is pretty bad. Also, the way that she talks to Christine as an inferior makes her seem pretty snobby. I think lying about the trip is more of a deceptive lie than betrayal. She wasn't necessarily betraying Torvald when she did this, but more of tricking, or decepting him. I think Nora does create a mixture of some of the themes in the story. Some of her actions could fall under many of the themes you have listed. An example of betrayal of deception being a positive thing would be lying to your family about having cancer so they can continue their everyday lives. I actually just pulled that example from a crappy movie I watched a few days ago.
My opinion of Nora has changed only slightly of her because from the start I liked her character and was drawn to it because she was such an optimistic person. The only way my opinon has changed is because before I somewhat thought she was a air head, and now as the story unfolds as it always does she has another side. She turns out to be in many was intelligent, for example the trip she took to italy. She fooled everyone into believing that her father that had passed away left her money, but she secretly borrowed money without anyone finding on. Based on this example, as well as the macroon eating I think that she falls under the theme of deception. I think it falls under deception because she is hiding things for reasons that in ways are for the better. I believe that she is not intentionally betraying her husband, but on the other hand she is obviously intelligent and knows what she is doing which makes Nora create a grey area within the two themes. An example of betrayal not being negative but a neccesity is when a parent keeps a secret about a relative within reason from their child to make sure they don't judge them before hand. I also wanted to add that dan's example was a really good one.
My opinion has changed a little bit. Nora now shows that she will lie to her husband Torvald. Nora had borrowed money in the past to save Torvalds life. I wouldnt concider that to mean she is a bad person, but she went behind Torvalds back. I think it would be a betrayl in Torvalds eyes. He hates the idea of borrowing money. If he found out, I think he would be very angry with her. I believe that Nora had to borrow the money to save her husband. Nora did it for the right cause, to save Torvalds life. If she would not of had made the decision she made he might of died. So Nora's choice was just.
Nora has really not gotten on my good side. I think she is a liar and for the wrong reasons. think she is greatly betraying her husband. She lies about alot of things that are big deals. Such as the trip to italy. I think betrayal is always a negtive. You should never have to lie about something that is a big deal always tell exspecily when involving money. She has no reason to have to be lieing to anyone that is my opinion.
Based on today's reading, has your opinion of Nora changed at all. Why or why not? Based on Nora's maccaroon eating and loan taking do you think that she falls under the themes of betrayal or deception? Why or why not? Does the character of Nora create a grey area for these themes within society? Give an example of when betrayal or deception may not be negative but a neccesity
In todays reading, my opinoun of Nora has changed. I think she is a liar but she did it for the good. She took out the loan to save her husband. Although she lies about the macroons and the loan, I still think she betrays him. I understand about not telling him about the loan but not the macroons. I think she's full of herself also. I guess betrayal is okay if it is benifiting someone in a good way. I think dan's example is a good one thta if you have cancer you do not tell anyone because everyone else would worry and not live their lives without worrying. It depends what the lie is and about for it to be bad.
Cody Dykes
yes it has a bit. Iv completely lost all sympathy for her. I'm not going to lie she was being a total bitch to her friend. All she cares about is herself and doesn't even offer anything to help her out. I like it's real shitty. I think she's in a gray area of both, but she's still going behind her husbands back either way. I think that there is some things that are ok to lie about if your doing it to help someone else out for a good cause. What she did was ok, but it was taking a risk because it was going against something her husband cared deeply in.
Based on today's reading, has your opinion of Nora changed at all. Why or why not? Based on Nora's maccaroon eating and loan taking do you think that she falls under the themes of betrayal or deception? Why or why not? Does the character of Nora create a grey area for these themes within society? Give an example of when betrayal or deception may not be negative but a neccesity.
my opinion of nora may have changed, but it would have been very minute. i still find her as ignorant, closed minded and kindof dumb. i mean sure, she has a rich husband so shes going to be snooty, but there is no need for her to be the way she is. and sure, she took a loan to help her husband heal. she is btraying him though, becaus eshe does not seek his approval on the majority of decisions she makes. she creates a gray area, because with her, there is always some form of justification for her actions. she never owns up to them. and the example of how betrayal she makes seem the most positive is taking a loan out to go to italy for her husbands health. i still do not find most of her actions acceptable, because she is so inept to what she is doing. she is not living like a wife of her time and i have a feeling later in the story some consequences will follow.
My opinion has changed with Nora; I thought she wasn't a rude. I found out today she is very self-centered. All she thinks or talks to people is about her and herself only. I also learned she is smarter then I thought by how she lied about the money to go to there vacation. I think the theme for Nora is deception. She never betrayal Torvald, she just said a white lie to him. She only said a white lie so he doesn't get mad at her.
Based on today's reading, has your opinion of Nora changed at all. Why or why not? Based on Nora's macaroon eating and loan taking do you think that she falls under the themes of betrayal or deception? Why or why not? Does the character of Nora create a Grey area for these themes within society? Give an example of when betrayal or deception may not be negative but a necessity.
My opinion about Nora has not changed at all. I still think that she is a continuous liar. As we found out today she has another secret. Nora went against her husbands word and borrowed money. Nora falls under the theme of betrayal thus far in the story. The reason for that is because of the fact that she betrayed her husband and borrowed money. I do still think that she has some good in her. She did go against her husband but she also saved his life. If she didn't borrow the money she might not have been able to pay for the trip. Yeah I think that Nora has caused a Grey area within society. I think it's right because she saved her husbands life. It's wrong because she betrayed him by lying. I really think that it was necessary to borrow the money. If she would not have Torvald might have died.
My opinion of Nora has changed in both positive and negative ways. Nora now shows that she will lie to her husband Torvald. Nora had borrowed money in the past to save Torvalds life. I think lying about the trip is more of a deceptive lie than betrayal. She lies about alot of things that are big deals. Such as the trip to italy. I think that is one of the ways that Nora changed for the negative.
In my opinions, Nora is an even more complex character and is rather difficult for me to characterize so concretely. She fits easily into both categories, but, based on what she's done and the gravity of it, I'd say that she's more deceptive. She lied to save her husband, which I would hardly call a betrayal. In fact, in that light, Torvald has a debt that he has to repay her. Torvald's disgust with her had she told him and the confrontation that would likely ensue is what befuddles me. More than likely however, Even in Nora repays her debt to "the person" and all is well, Torvald would resent having a debt to his wife, of all people. Nora caring for her husband is hardly an act of betrayal.SO yes, Nora is the grey character. Not easily categorized either way, but still a little bit of both. So, I think that Nora is still loving of her husband and is still an egocentric little spender, but I think that she still won't be willing to do everything for her husband, if it means being in trouble herself.
Nora was already appearing some what self-centered from our reading yesterday, but from today I think she is very self-centered and very egocentric. She seems to be very much about her own prosperity and well-being in life, than even her own husband and her friend Mrs. Linde. I do think that Nora's sneaking of eating maccaroons and lying about taking out money to her husband is definitely betrayal and decepting. Nora lies to her husband about what she is doing, and still after he tells her specific things not to do, she goes right along and does whatever she pleases so that she will be happy. Nora definitely lives for the momeny and does not think ahead one bit, which is the complete opposite of her husband. She is very sneaky in her way of betraying her husband, and although the things she does are not very bad, they can all snow-ball and add up to something very big to lie about. Nora's character does create a grey area for society, and their perspective of woman. She does not work for herself, or her own money, she just uses all of her husbands money and this makes woman look bad as a whole. She makes mothers and wifes that don't work in society look very self-centered, although some probablly are, not all of them are there are many others that fall into the black and white areas as well. Betrayal of a loved one can sometimes be a positive thing, only when the person is in danger of their life and you are protecting them in some situation.
My opinion has more understanding of who Nora is. To hear her huge secrect about the loan put things in perspective. She ended up saving Torvald's life in the end due to borrowing money for the trip. She can fall under the theme of betrayl because she lied to her husband in the end with her maccaroon eatting. But also, a thing so simple like having a treat seems crazy that Torvald can't stand that. Nora is in the gray area of these themes. Her macarroon eatting and trying to save her husbands life is a deception. But it isn't very negative and i understand that more.
Seeing as i was not in class yesterday the only opinion i have of Nora is what i read today. I think that she is very self centered and deceptive. I think this because she does lie about the nuts, but she secretly takes out a loan to save her husband. I dont think of this as betrayal because she did it to save him instead of to buy something. I also think that she is very good at lying and it is one of those things that come very naturally to her. Betralay and deceptioon might not be negative when it comes to stopping panic. If someone were to launch a missle at us, then the government would want to keep it secret. This would be good so that the nation wont go into mass panic before the government can do anything to try to stop it.
My opinion of Nora has changed and actually become a little more untrustworthy. She may have just said that stuff about getting all that money just to make herself look good infront of her friend. I definitely think that she falls under the deception and betrayal theme because she seems to be decieving Ms. Linde about getting so much money for her husband. She also is betraying her husband by spending money behind his back and lying to him so much. Yes she does create a grey area for these themes because she makes it so difficult to tell if she is like other decievers and betrayers. Betrayal may be a necessity when you need to betray someone like an undercover cop betrayin his criminal leads/suspects.
-Dick Nehring
My opinion on Nora has changed greatly since we've plunged furthered into the story. Yesterday, I saw Mrs. Helmer as the optimistic woman who simply needed her wants and wanted her needs. Sure, she lied to her husband about purchasing the macaroons but, as we discussed in class today, most any marriage comes equipped with those 'white lies', so to speak. However, today I realized that Nora is quite self-absorbed and condescending. She speaks to Christine in such a demeaning tone throughout their conversation; in fact, when she told her friend that she didn't want to be selfish today she, in the very next statement, had asked if Christine had heard the wonderful news that had graced her and Torvald recently. I think Nora is of the deceiving type, but not so much a betrayer; saving your husband's life, albeit with sneaky secrets, is hardly an act of betrayal. However, the way that she saved his life was a very deceiving one in that she borrowed money, or 'found it' as she recalls - something that strictly goes against Torvald's morals - to initiate a trip to Italy which cured Torvald back to full health. It is in this manner that she creates a gray area between deception. Had Torvald known that Nora, not her father, had paid for the vacation and in such a way that goes against his standings, I think he would have scolded her. Betrayal is never necessary, as there are always more optimistic and realistic ways to approach things than to betray another, but deceiving someone may just be, especially in high school relationships. Many a person in a couple will lie to partner about who they have hung out with recently. Take this for example:
Girlfriend: "Well, how many people were at the party?"
Boyfriend: "Oh, just a few of the guys. Nothing serious."
Conversations similar to the example occur often in the time that a couple dates for; you see, the boyfriend generally knows that there were a few women at the party and perhaps his girlfriend didn't like the company of one of the women attending said party. Therefore, the boy will lie about the girl being there, or just deny any women being present altogether.
The things love - in any form - do to ya.
- Ryan Moore.
My opinion of Nora has definately changed. I think that she is a very selfish person. When her and Christine were talking she only wanted to talk about herself. She also likes to talk about how good things are in her life and doesnt consider anybody else's. I think Nora showed a lot of betrayal because she lied to her husband numerous times. She lied about eating the maccaroons and she never told her husband about the money she borrowed. Although it was for a good reason she still shouldnt have kept it from him. I think Torvald will be really upset with her if he every found out.
After listening to what we read today i do not think my opinion of Nora has changed much. The only thing im thinking about differently is how much she will lie about now. The maccaroons were small but now ngetting 250 pounds (alot back then i guese) is alot bigger of a lie. I think that if she told him about the situation with his health he would have gladley paid the price. Yes, i do think that betrayel is a big part of their realtionship. I also think that the betrayel is needed though. It keeps their lives running smoothly and it works for them. I think she does leave grey areas in society but i also think its just how life is.
Computer was messed up yesterday, couldnt see the publish or prievew option. Also means i couldnt click and post :).
My opinion of Nora has changed. I think that the maccaroon eating and loan taking are on different ends of extreme. The maccaroon eating is not really deceptive. Yes, she hid it from him but it is such a minor thing that it doesn't deserve to be called deception. On the other hand, lying about the loan was deceptive. I would also call it betrayal because she knows that he would not like it. Some of it can be excused because she did it for a good reason. I think that Dan's example was a good one. Someitmes, you really don't want to tell the truth about somebody dying.
Based on today's reading, has your opinion of Nora changed at all. Why or why not? Based on Nora's maccaroon eating and loan taking do you think that she falls under the themes of betrayal or deception? Why or why not? Does the character of Nora create a grey area for these themes within society? Give an example of when betrayal or deception may not be negative but a neccesity.
My opinion of Nora has changed a little bit. She is smarter than I thought but she chooses not to act smart. Thats why my perspective on Nora has changed. Yes she falls under those themes because she is not being truthful to Torvauld. It is things like this that make Taurvald not trust her. An example of when betrayel might not be negetive is when she saved his life. She borrowed money without telling him to save his life.
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