Today we began reading "A Doll's House." Please re-read the pages we have read thus far, 111-115.
Based on the limited interaction we have seen thus far, describe the relationship between Nora and Torvald. Do you think that they have a good relationship? Why or why not? Why does Nora feel the need to lie to him and based on his comments thus far what would be his reaction if he knew she was lying? If she has lied about little things do you think that she would be willing to lie about bigger issues?
20 comments:
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is, in my option, a complicated one. While I do think that there is true love and affection, it's of the restrained and controlling kind. Nora lying about the macaroons proves it. Torvald is insistent on scrimping, while Nora loves to spend. Nora probably lied to avoid confrontation and Torvald's demeaning comments. Other than that, I do think that they have a decent relationship. Most couples have one person who doesn't like to spend as much as the other, and while Torvald is slightly demeaning and obsessive over her, I still think that they do love each other enough and Nora would lie to protect his life. So, with some confidence, while they keep secrets, have an odd way of showing affection and have different personalities, I do believe they love each other very much.
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is in my opinion not a healthy one because they are from the little I have read dishonest and opposite. I understand sometimes people being opposites for example one Torvald being a realist, and Nora being an optimist may be a good thing, on the other hand it is not. I feel as though Torvald often brings Nora's upbeat attitude down with him because he wants it that way. I also find their relationship to be unbalanced because Torvald treats Nora like an infant by only letting her do certian things. The relationship is dishonest thus far becasue of when Nora lies about eating the macroons when in reality she really did not have to lie about it but she feared what he would say or do. Thus far reading it seems to me that Torvald's reaction to Nora admitting to eating her treat is he would be very upset that first she didn't ask to eat it, and secondly she was wasting money in his eyes. If Nora would have told him that she was lying before then Torvald probably would be furious and punish her in some way by maby not giving her money like she wants him to. Since Nora has lied about little things I defitonaly agree that she would lie about bigger issues just from getting Torvald mad. Although their relationship may seem dysnfunctional in many ways, what relationship isn't? That is why on the other hand, I do believe that they really have a deep connection and love one another.
Cody Dykes
I don't see any kind of "relationship" here at all. He treats her a object. I was actually somewhat offended by the things i was saying. He never called her a name and at one point called her a pet. I'm pretty confident he beats her like a slave so she's afraid of lying to him. I don't think that she would ever tell him anything that he dident approve of. I just think that later in the play shit is goin down.
I think the relationship between Nora and Torvald is kind of like a father-child relationship. I honestly think they do have a good relationship though. Considering the year this story takes place, they seem like a happy family. Nora has to hide her spending because her husband is tight with money. If Torvald new she was lying, I think he would be pretty furious. I don't really think Nora would lie about serious issues. I think she feels that it's not a big deal that she lied about buying macaroons.
I think that the relationship between Nora and Torvald is that torvald has all the power. Torvald has a say in all the matters so far. Also he manages all the money and what Nora does with it. Also Torvald treats Nora like she is some kind of pet. I think that they dont have a good relationship. They dont have one because Torvald treats Nora with respect he treats her like she is some kind of kid. Nora needs to lie because Torvald would be made that she had waisted money on food when they need to save money. If he had found out he would be angry at Nora and would probably not give ger money any more. I think she would lie about bigger issues because she is afraid of what Torvald will do if he had found out about the bigger issues.
I think that the relationship between Torvald and Nora is a complicated relationship. It's not a good relationship because she lies to him about the macaroons when it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. They don't really have an open relationship. He treats her like an object or like a kid. If Torvald makes all the money then I guess he can control where is goes. Nora has to lie to him because he is stingy with money.I dont really think she would be willing to lie unless money had to deal with the situation.
The relation between them to is very funny. I think the relationship they have together is disfunctional. They are to almost oppisite people, they disagree on major diecsions. She feels she has to lie to him beccause it would be easier if he just didnt no and she wouldnt get in trouble. If he caught her lying he would not be happy and most likely limit her spending amount. I think she would defintly lie about something bigger if she would lie about some as little as a snack. I just dont think there relationship is gunna workout much longer.
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is very torn. They both seem very hostile towards each other. I don't think they have a good relationship because it is so unbalanced and they seem to not care. Nora is very optamistic and Torvald is all about the real world. They really are two complete odds. Nora always finds the need to lie to Torvald. The way he says his comments makes her feel very low and he sees her as so below him. I almost feel like Nora doesn't need to feel the need to tell him anything. They don't trust each other and don't have a need too. I think that Nora could chance to lie about bigger deals. Wh not? she has already lied about everything else. I am very interested to see how this story plays out.
i believe by today's standards, they would seem to have many problems in their relationship. not just one, like a lack of trust, responsibility and sincerity, but more immense in the world today. nora feels the need to lie to him, because being a woman, she does not hold the same priviliges and responsibilities of a man, and his reaction would be all that of rage. i do believe that lieing about little things shows a willingness to li of big things. this story is a classic example of the old days, and how people used to live. stories like these strike a chord in the worldtoday. it brings up memories of the womens rights movement, and civil rights, and many see it as sexist.
So far, it seems like Nora and Torvald are very different from each other. It seems that he is all about not borrowing money for any reason and she is all about spending money as soon as she gets it. I do not think that they have a good relationship because she decided to lie to him. I do not know why Nora feels the need to lie to him and I think he knows that she is lying. I think that she will be willing to lie about bigger issues.
I think that Nora and Torvald have a working relationship but not a perfect one. Nora is treated with disrespect but thats how most women were treated then. I think that they get along and manage things in their own uniqe way. Nora has to lie to Torvald to get around his regulations, and i guese if he doesnt find out it will keep doing them both fine. If he knew she was lying i dont think the relationship would have lasted this long. They probobly would have gotten a divorce or he might treat her even worse. I also think that she will lie about bigger things later on in the story.
I think there is some differences between them, which in the long run could end their marriage. Nora likes to spend money, thats what she likes to do. On the other hand, Torvald doesnt like to spend money. He hates the idea of having debt between him and someone else. He shows his love for her in many ways, but he does not treat her as an adult. In my opinion, Nora lied to Torvald because she did not want to start an argument. I also believe she felt as if her lie was a small one, and that it really would not bother Torvald. I think he knew about her lie, but he did not want to confront her at that time. He is going to save his anger for another time when he can not handle her little lies here and there. I think that she is definatly capable of lying about anything if she can lie to her husband "face to face". I also believe that something big is going to happen later in this story.
I feel the relationship between nora and Torvald this far is not very good. Torvald treats Nora like she is one of his kids. Torvald bascially tells Nora what to do and critisizes her for stuff that she does. The up side is that you can still tell that he loves her even though he is not the best to her. Nora feels she has to lie about things because Torvald is a conservative money and he doesnt like when Nora spends money on things that they do not need. When she bought those cookies, and Torvald knew she bought them. She lied about it by saying that she didnt buy them when she went into town. His reaction to her lying was he got really suspicious, and then she denied it, and then Torvald backed off and told her that he beleived her. I think when it comes to lying about bigger issues I dont think that she would do it. She seems like she cares a lot about Torvald and that she would be honest with him when it is about something important.
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is that Torvald is really over powering. He looks at Nora as if she is a pet and nothing more. He only calls her names of animals like squirrel. Nora is a big money spender; she doesn't like to save money. Torvald doesn't want to borrow money because he wants to keep his title strong, and that kind of makes Nora upset. Nora also feels intimidating and she has to hide her sweet tooth. They still are good to each other though he faces the facts that she does like to spend money and has a sweet tooth, but he want to help her fix those problems.
Nora and Torvald are of the complicated lovers strain, if you will. Mr. Helmer shows his affection to his beloved with rather demeaning ways, such as his literal pet names like squanderbird that he refers to her as. Clearly, Nora is the optimist of the relationship as we discussed in class today; she seems to think that things will work their way out eventually and that, even when money is tight, people should still be allowed, so to speak, to purchase some of the things that they want much like her macaroons. What's an eventful life without getting some wants along with needs. Torvald, on the other hand, seems to think that money is a sort of sacred thing - that borrowing anyone else's money is strictly forbidden. I think this goes deeper than the fact that he doesn't want to go into debt, also. It's as if he keeps his money to himself and expects others to do the same. Money, for Torvald, seems to be more than a thing for purchasing items; it seems to be a thing that he takes pride in and does not like to share, even with his wife. Together, the couple creates a rather balanced chi, if you will.
I think that Nora lied to her husband about purchasing the macaroons simply to avoid certain verbal scolding. One must take into consideration the time frame during which this is being told; in such an era, if a woman went against what her husband wished then the consequences would be much different and greater than would they today, if such male chauvinism even exists in modern society. If Mrs. Helmer was willing to lie about a simple thing like purchasing a snack then I think that, in time, she will graduate so to speak up to bigger things and eventually be able to lie to Torvald and feel hardly any guilt in doing so. The compassion that exists between the two is an odd one, but it is apparent that they are in love.
- Ryan Moore
The relationship between Torvald and Nora so far hasn't been looking so good. I do think they have a little bit of a bond. They have one of those your my pet relationships. Its almost like he keeps her around so he's not bored. I think Nora lied to Torvald because she didn't want him to know that she wasted money on cookies. Like Dick said in class today, she should only spend as much money as he does. If he can last without wasting any money so can she. I really think that Torvald knows she is lying. He kept pushing her on the question, did you buy sweets? I don't think he even wanted to confront her about it though.
I don't think that Nora and Torvald have got a good marriage situation to start with, so there is no good relationship that can really be built from that. Torvald see's Nora as being below him and that he is sort of on a pedastool compared to her. Woman did not have nearly as much power during the time of this story like they do now so that does play a big role in their relationship too. There is no respect on Torvald's side for Nora because she is a woman and that he thinks hes above her. Nora feels the need to lie to Torvald because bsed on the comments he has made to her so far about not spending money, he would be pretty upset. She goes behind his back and spends his money that he is earning, and if Torvald found out than he would be dissapointed in Nora so she just lies to him about it. Nora seems so comfortable so far in the story lying to Torvald about small things that she is spending money on, so I think it would be the same case lying about bigger things. Nora seems like a good liar to me, because she probablly has to lie like that a lot to Torvald to get her way, so I'm sure she would be just fine lying about bigger issues.
Due to the fact that i was not in school for this class this morning i have no idea what this blog is asking. But from what i heard these peoples relations suck because he treats her like a prisoner. If anyone knows how its possible to crack a tooth that you dont even use please tell me. Now i have to go get a stupid crown on my molar, which is absolutly ridicolous because it costs like 500 hundred dollars and i bet it hurts like no other. O and another thing i ahve to complain about to take up sapce is my work situtiation. The owner of alpine is making all the instructers buy a 175 dollar coat by friday. Now this would be all fine and dany if he gave us more than a weeks warning and we were not getting fired on fridy if we dont have it. I find this absolutly absurd seeing as how i have like two days to buy a coat that i cannot afford or get fired. I personally see no problem with wearing my normal coat. So in order to save the mere forty dollars i earned from working there all winter i am going to hold out until i get fired and work at subway or DQ.
The relationship between Nora and Torvald is kind of different. It seems like they care about eachother, but they dont show it as well as they should. It seems that Nora has to look up to torvald a lot and has to listen to him. I think that Torvald over reacts a little bit because Nora is a grown woman and should be able to make some decisions for herself. She does take care of her family and her household and should be able to award herself when she wants to. She shouldnt have to wait for torvald's approval. I think that if Nora lies about little things, then she will probably lie about bigger ones. If torvald found out that Nora was lying he would definatly be upset and would probably freak out. I think that its ok for Nora to keep some things to herself. If she told Torvald everything and if she always obeyed him then she wouldnt be happy. She would have no life of her own and wouldnt be able to make any decisions for herself. I think that they need a more open realationship because it seems that they realtionship is based on lies and secrets. I also think that Torvald needs to give her a little more space.
Their relationship is no good. It's an insulting controling realtionship. All Torvald ever does is softly insult Nora and control everything she does and especially the money she spends. Nora however insists that she has never disobeyed or lied to Torvald about ever spending money when she wasn't suppose to. Nora has the situation by lying so much and not just talking and settling things with him. They basically seem to love the controling/controlled feeling that each of them gets from one another. I do believe they love each other but don't want to live with each other.
-Dick Nehring
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