We continue looking at The Iliad and all it brings to the table. One of the ideas to think about is that of victory. We live in a society that is geared toward winning at all costs. We saw some of that with Achilles and the way he treated Hector even in death. With the idea of what is victory respond to the follwing:
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
Mahatma Gandhi
How could this apply to our world, you and Achilles?
37 comments:
This quote, means that a victory in violence is basically the same as defeat, because it only lasts for a short amount of time. I would have to say that this quote is true in most cases. When you look at the history of the world, evertime a power our country took over another power or country in a violent fashion, there was always an uprising in which the conquerers were attacked by the conquered. This also applies with Achilles. Yes, he won his fight with hector, but what happened afterwards. He was killed by an archer. I suppose the same could be said for me. If I were to be an ass after I won a tennis match, that feeling of victory and euphoia would be shot lived, because my coach would tell me that I was benched for the next game due to my behaviour. I think that that quote applies to a lot of situations for a lot of people.
To me this quote means that if you defeat someone using violence you actually don't win. Yes, in the moment you technically win, but in the long run it does not count. That winning with violence is equal to defeat. It does not make you any stronger or any better it makes you equal. In our world victory by violence is not really a definition of a win, we tend to be more civilized and win sing other tactics besides violence. However in Achilles world violence and killing was what made you a great warrior. Violence was a way to get respect so most men achieved victory by using violence to defeat others.
Taylor Dieck
2nd hr.
This quote means that if you are victor by violence then it will be a short lived victory. This quote applys to this world in everyday life because when you think about it everyday there are winners and losers, most of the time the winners have to acomplish what theve acomlished by using violence. This quote applies to me because whenever i get in a confrontation with someone i try not to take the path of violence because i know it will affect me in the long run. For Achillies he does not care if he uses violence to atain his victory. To Achillies having the honor of being victorious is in his blood and he has no concisous. If he wants to kill a man then he is going to do it because he was trained to win no matter what.
Will Michaels 2nd hour
When I hear this quote I only think of one thing. When you use violence and you win you arent really winning. It will hurt you in the end. For achilles, he killed so many people and he has never lost a fight, but he had to live with blood on his hands. In his time what he was doing was right. Today murding is a crime and you will be put in prison for it. Our society today looks down on it. In rome people looked at it as entertainment, and seen it as a honor to kill people in the fights. I dont think violence is the answer either. Even though I do sometimes, it always backfires on you. So why even do it? Just like Mahatma said violence is equal to defeat.
This applies to our world, because most people in our world today try to attain victory by violence. I can be that person sometimes, when people push me ill try to defeat them with violence. In football every battle is fought with violence, and either you win or lose, but the feeling of being victorious lasts a long time. Achilles applies to this quote because his battles are always fought with violence, and he always wins. After Achilles fights his battle he soon has to fight another one so the previous victory has no importance. And when the next battle comes to Achilles the whole process repeats.
The quote by Mahatma Gandhi basically means that when you win by violence, you only feel victorious a moment afterwards. This also applies to the world today. History has shown us that violence doesn't solve anything or make anything right. When Hitler was leading the Nazi party and mass murders throughout Europe, his feeling of so called "victory" from this only lead to him killing himslef and many people hating his guts. This applies in my life also. If I were to use violence on someone who was annyoing me or being a jerk, then I would be the one who got in trouble. Achilles has killed many people including Hector, and he is the one who is going to have to live with the guilt. This quote is trying to remind everyone that violence isn't going to make your life better.
Everyone have a happy Halloween
I think that the quote is saying that if you win something by violence, and the violence is not nescessary then it is not a win. Violence plays a big role in everything. The most popular sport in America today happens to be violent. Most t.v. shows and movies and video games are also violent. While it is not always the right thing to do, sometimes violence is the way things need to be handled. I, personally am not a very violent person, but if needed, I can be. I think that everybody is the same way. Everybody can be violent in some way or another if they need to be. I feel that when Achilles killed Hector and did not allow him to rest in peace it was unnescesary. I feel that if you defeat someone in a sport (that was considered sport in ancient Rome) that you should not be a prick about it when you win. Everybody will win and everybody will lose in life, and as long as you take wins and losses as a man, then you are being honorable.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
Mahatma Gandhi
To me this quote is telling us that violence is not the answer to any kind of conflict. Although, many disagree. Peace, I believe, is the answer to all problems. A conflict solved in peace has a better outcome always. For example, when my mom and I get into a fight I have found that it is better to talk in a controlled and peaceful manner rather than a, maybe not physically violent, but violent tone. I have found that if I talk more peacefully the conflict is resolved faster and my punishment is less severe. People view victory in many different ways. For Achilles, it may have been stabbing Hector's body and nailing it to his ship but in a way this action is insulting his honor along with his victory. What Achilles did was inhumane. When he mutilated Hector's body he defeated the purpose of killing him for his cousin's death. What he did to Hector is as low as what Hector did to his cousin. In a way his "victory" was his own defeat of seeing past the hatred and the fury to the right thing to do.
Audrey
This quote means that whatever victory is obtained by violence is equal to a defeat and your victory will be lost by violence. If you use violence to acquire a win your victory will be short lived and be received as a defeat. This quote could apply to me in tennis. If I am to brag about a big win the next match I play I might lose and have to eat my own words. We should all fight our battles with respect and integrity because you never know when you will be on the losing end. This quote could apply to Saddam Hussain- he used violence to obtain all of his power and in the end act of violences brought him to death by execution. This quote applies to Achilles because even though he won the battle with Hector, it his victory was short lived because he ended up being killed.
I think that this means that victory by violence is mostly being defeated. The feeling of victory doesnt stay with you verry long if you end up feeling guilty about it. THis quote is verry true mostly in history. Any time that a country conquered another one there was always concequesnces and the feeling didnt last verry long. THis is also true in Achilles. He did win and kill Hector but after that he died. This aplies to me too, if i had a voxtory by cheating or something then the feeling of being victorious wouldnt stay with me verry long. I would feel bad about it also and not have wanted to be victorious in the end.
Katlyn Twigg 2nd HOur
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
Mahatma Gandhi
This quote by Mahtama Gandhi can apply to many things. It applies to our world in many ways as well. One of the ways it applies to our world is because everyone in the world wants to win when they are in a competition, even though you win if you win from using violence it's just as good as a defeat. It applies to me as well. It applies to me because of cheerleading. When we are at a competition everyone wants to win but if we were to win in an unfair manner then it would be just life if we had lost. The quote applies to Achilles’ too. Achilles’ wins all his battle throw violence and he almost positive he will win every time because he is almost immortal. When he does this knowing he will win it is almost as if he is being defeated himself.
This quote, means that a victory in violence is pretty much the same as defeat, because it only last for a certian length of time. I think this quote is very true. This quote can apply to the world and Achilles because things people do are only talked about for a little bit. Then something new happens, and thats they new word on the street. People get over things fast and move on. An example where this happened to me was when i did a back tuck. I was only happy about it for like a day and i was over it.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
Mahatma Gandhi
To me this quote is saying that victory with violence is a defeat. Meaning, that even though you conquered your goal, you did it in an inhumane way. Gandhi was right in saying that it's only momentary because soon you realize the destruction you've caused. This idea can apply to our world by the police. If police solve a drug bust, but have a lot of killings on the way, it still would get to them after a while. It could apply to me by if I did something victorious, but in a bad manner then i wouldnt feel the same way after.
This quote means when you fight a battle,even though you may win people still lose their lives. In my eyes thats really a defeat. In our world a lot of good men lose their lives. Everyday there are losers and winners, and you can't pick which one you are, it just happens how it happens. You have to live your life and decided for yourself whats right and whats wrong. In Achilles world it was just about killing people, and being honorable. Violence was the way to get respect from people, and thats what he wanted. This quote can relate to a lot of different things, but this is the most common use.
Katlin Gotshaw
3rd Hour
This wuote means that victory by violence is not really victory at all. In a lot of ways, this quote is true. In history, most 'victories' are won by violence, war. Gotta beef with another country, war will solve this problem. When it comes to Achilles, he used violence to solve his probalem with Hector. But, Hector didn't make it out alive, so what does Achilles do? He ties Hector to the back of his chariot and rides home with Hector dragging behind. Now, I can imagine people were like, 'Ohhhh! Achilles killes Hector! COOOL!', then a millisecond later, didn't care. If I walked off the feild after a marching band show, and was all cocky for having a good performance, and was a poor sport about everyone else sounding like shit. The happiness I felt wouldnt last long because as an ensemble, we all did bad. To sound cliche, 'One band, one sound.' If one person messes up, we all mess up. Its really how it is.
Sam Tedder
To me this quote means if you a victorious with means of violence, your glory wont last that long. I think it also means if you winning by violence is just like loosing. This applies to my world by accomplishing my goals in a fair just way. If I get what I want by violence, eventually ill come to realize that I acutally lost in a way. This applies to society in general by people do violent to get what they want all the time. An example is someone breaking in someone elses home and stealing what belongs to them. They get what they want, but in the end, they feel guilty for what they did. This applies to Achilles when he kills Hector and drags him for everyone to see. Achilles thought he could never be defeated now that Hector was gone, but in the end he too dies which wasnt too long after he killed Hector.
deets
a victoryin violence obviously woulb be short lived. short lived because it was not gained through peace. victory through violence is forced upon the lesser party. the outcome is not through a give and take compromise. to conquer is to win but to win through violence would leave a distance to the victors not the sweetness you so often hear about. violence is not the answer- someone always remains opressed.
Victory that is obtained by violence is not merely a win. Soon to find out it was just a short lived dream. No matter what it is violence seems to be the thing to use. By using violence you may find yourself victorious but in the short term wrong. I think this is used way to much today. This is applied throughout our world on a day to day basis. Theirs robbery, rape, murder, theft, cheaters etc. To me, well I can say I've used violence for a win. I can be a real dick to people sometimes just to get what I want. To Achilles, he was routed on for his violence thus making him worse. He may not have realized it but eventually he got what he deserved. I don't care who you are but using violence is wrong and will soon come back to haunt you.
This quote, means that a victory in violence is basically the same as defeat, because it only lasts for a short amount of time. This quote can apply to this world in everyday life because when you think about it. everyday there are winners and losers. But most of the time the winners have to accomplish what they accomplished by using violence or something else. It does not make you any stronger or any better it makes you equal. To Achilles having the honor of being victorious is in his blood and he has no consience. If he wants to kill a man then he is going to do no matter what.
What this quote means is that violence doesnt solve anything. If you are victorious by using violence then the defeat doesnt really exist. I think talking things through and using peace is the way to solve a problem or conflict. If you use viloence, its really going to get no where. So, this compares to Achilles and Hector because, i dont belive that Achilles should be proud of winning against Hector. He shouldnt be proud because they were using violence to solve the problem, instead of using peace. This could apply to our world because again, if you try to solve a conflict by using violence you're only going to get yourslef into more trouble.
This quote means that winning in the presents of violence isn't always a good thing. You may claim victory but deep down you know its not right. Although Achilles killed hector he had a reason to. Achilles anger towards Hector was reasonable because Hector killed his friend. The fact of how Achilles showed no honor or respect to Hector after killing was wrong. I mean if fighting really comes down to killing, you should at least let him die in honor. So if this applied to our world it would be chaotic. People would only claim victory by violence and killing.
To me I believe that this quote means violent victory is as good as a defeat, becuase it won't last forever. Once you have won don't rub it in to the people you have aspierd over. This quote is for the most part true I think, people always end up losing when they get devine power. Its true in the world becuase whenever a country conquers another there is always an uprising and they are defeated. I don't think this applys to me in anyway. But it applys to Achilles becuase once he kills hector with violence he drags him away with his chariate. If I saw him doing this I would not respect him and not trust him.
John McLean
2nd
I think the quote by Gandhi means only one thing. if you win by violence you arnt truely winning. When you win by violence you only can feel victorious for so long. later you wont remember the great feeling of winning. However if you obtain a win by non violence you are able to feel a sense of honor and power. With Achilles yes he won the fight, but later he isnt going to be able to look at hims self and say, i have done somthing good. there is nothing gained by killing and violence. All you can gain by violence, is enamys.
Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary.
Mahatma Gandhi
This quote means that voilence never solves anything, it only prolongs something. Usually in history when a country defeated another and took it over there was a revolt of some sort. And if there wasn't after the emperor or dictator died the empire or country was thrown into choas. When me and my brothers get into an argument we usually try to beat one another up, and usually I win because I'm the biggest. But when my brothers rat on me I always get into trouble. With Achilles, he was always winning fights and for the longest time nobody could do anything about it. Then in another epic poem, the god Apollo guided an arrow shot by Paris , the prince of Troy.
This quote means that a victory by killing someone is the same as lsing the fight. I think that this quote is a good lesson because it teaches you good self morals. If you want to win a fight you have to win, you dont have to go overboard and end the other person's life. This applies with Achilles when he is fighting Hector in the end for the battle's last stand. In the end Achilles was killed by Paris. I think the same is said for me, if i were to act like a jerk after the tennis match, the other kid would probably beat my little butt. I dont act like that though so i have nothing to worry about.
Alec Shoems 3rd Hour
I think that this quote is true. To me it means that by winning by violence you get defeated in some other way. You may have compromised your morals or did something that yoy wouldnt actually do when not influnced by anger. Then after you get this awesome defeat and you win later when you actually have time to think about it you feel bad, and actually realize what you did. In our world there are a lot of angery people who get drunk and beat there wives, win victory over them but later realize what they did was stupid. In my life I dont really get violent and the people around arent really violent either. Sometimes i think about just totally punching someone right in the face, then I actually think about the consequenses and I know that I shouldnt do it. With Achilles if he wouldnt haave been so hyped up about winning and killing Hector then he probably wouldnt have dragged him around behind his carriage. He would have proabbly thought about his actions.
This quote means that when you win through violence, your victory is only celebrated for a short time. I feel like this is very true in today's world and back in Achilles time. If you beat someone through violence, you will only feel good about winning for a short time, until you realize you killed someone in order to obtain that victory. When ever my team wins a game in hockey, it always feels better to know we won fairly. When ever people get stupid penalties or hurt the other team and then we win, it doesn't feel as good to win, knowing it wasn't a fair game. And even when you beat someone you should still be a good winner. I don't think the way Achilles treated Hector after he was dead was very hero like. I feel like he should have let his friends and family keep his body and have a proper funeral. Hector didn't do anything dirty or mean during the fight, he fought a clean and fair fight and deserved to have a nice funeral.
Hannah Aittama
2nd hour
Well if you win something in violence, like a snowboarding contest, you really dont win. If you have to cheat to win then you really arnt winning at all. when you win, if you are a good sport then you will be rewarded. Achilles kils hector. Ok thats good but then he has to take it further and drag him once he has been killed. All that does is get him killed in the end. Achilles could have been a good sport but he had to be arrogent and show the city of troy that he is superior. In the end that gets him killed for being a bad winner. To me i dont really win things so it doesnt effect me but when i do win i rub it in cuz i rarley win.
Zack Ruffin
I think this quote means that victory by violence is really no better than defeat. I think this quote is true in most cases but not in all. I think that when we were attacked on 9/11 their was no real peaceful response as an option. I think that is how it applys to the world. It applys to me because if i get in the fight it doesnt solve anything. All it does is create a bigger problem. I think achilles is big on this too. I think that because hector killed his friend he felt like he had to resort to violence. I dont really think that achilles solved the problem.
Blanz
2nd
I think this quote can mean many different things. Personally, I think it means that victory that is reached through violence, is not much of a victory at all. I think that this quote can apply to the world, but not in every case. Unfortunately while wars are violent and dangerous, it seems as though victory for one side is usually achieved. However if you back through history these victories have set backs and tend to fire back at the victor. This quote also relates to Achilles, in several ways. In one way, he is able to defeat Hector, but not long after he is defeated himself. This relates to me because I have discovered that violence doesn't lead to any side being the true victor. In some way violence causes both sides to be hurt in some way, causing no one to truly be victorious.
The obvious meaning of this quote is that a victory by means of violence, mid as well be considered a loss. If you beat someone in a violent way, yeah you won, but that feeling of victory will vanish quickly. As for Achilles, yes he won, but the way he treated Hector's death and his body afterwords was very violent. For him, the feeling probably left after he realized that it would have been much more honorable to leave his body for his people. He probably started to feel guilty afterwords, taking his feeling of victory away anyways. I feel this quote is very true, so it can be applied to my life very easily. For example, when I win a football game, it is much more glorifying to do it with good sportsmanship and know that we just outplayed them. On the other hand, if we win by cheap shots and bad calls, it doesnt feel as good at the end of the day in reality.
This quote means that a victory gained through violence is equal to a defeat because it only lasts for a small period of time. I think we can apply this to our world because if we look back in history, the wars where victory is achieved through violence do not do much in the long-run. WWI ended, but WWII still came because people think more violence will help put them back on top. For me, I think it shows that fighting with other people can never help. If I want to prove a point or win at something, I should do it fairly and civily. If I fight with others to make my way to the top at something, it is going to come back later and I'll have negative consequences because of it. Achilles seems to have this problem too, because even though he kills one man or helps kill an army, there is always the next person to kill. Even though Achilles keeps killing and having victories, he never gets to stop for a while and admire his own victories because he has to go on and kill the next guy.
I think this qoute means that if you win or get some kind of victory by violence, that it will not seem like a victory. An exaple is Achilles and how he got to victory by killing many people. He did not actually gain anything from using violence, because he would have been living a life full of guilt. Many people in our world think they can attain victory through violence. An example of this would be gang wars. Gang members might shoot someone from another gang, and they might think they are victorious, but they end up either getting thrown in jail, or killed. This might apply to me sometimes, rarely, when someone just keeps bothering me, I might snap. This quote can be used any where because it applies to anyone.
To me this quote means that using violence to win is the same as failing. In othrwords winning by doing it an honorest way is the best way to win. If you win but act like a hotshot afterward it is not the same as showing good sportmanship. This applies to Achilles because he killed Hector fairly but when dragged Hector around by the chariot was uncalled for. He was wrong by showing off by torturing Hector after he was dead because he wanted to show he was the dominat warrior. Every one already knew that he was the greates warrior and there wasn't any reason to torture the corpse. The only reason he might have done it was to intiminate the Spartans.
Mom had swine so Iwas without a computer or internet while living at my friends house.
This quote means that a victory attained by violence is the same as a defeat. It is momentary and doesn't last long. I believe Gandhi is right about this. I say this because violence is never the answer to anything. So, in essence, killing somebody in order to win makes you the loser. In the Iliad, Achilles fought and killed Hector to avenge his cousin. By doing this he lost his victory shortly after when he was shot by an archer. I could say the same thing would happen to me. If I was on a team, baseball and etc, and I started bragging after a win then my coach would probably scold me and tell me I wasn't allowed to play for a while.
James Richardson
3rd hour
The quote "Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary," was stated by Mahatma Gandhi. To me it means that when you have to use violence to beat someone you might as well have lost. He believed that violence was not the way to solve a problem. In our world people often use violence to end conflicts. It is evident any time we go to war. For example, were at war in Iraq right now. Perhaps wars would be prevented if tried a non-violent approach first. In my life i know violence is not the way to solve a problem. Using violent force against someone is going to get me into trouble and cause even more problems. Even if i end up victorious, there will be other conflicts. In the case of Achilles he only knows of using violent force. To him he is invincible so why would he use any other method? Many lifes, including that of Hector could have been saved if Achilles would have taken up the idea expressed in the quote.
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